A full run-down of the recent radical feminist convention is coming soon. I just now recovered even somewhat from the emotional exhaustion and general feeling of disappointment surrounding it.
(Which is why I haven’t been on here to edit, or to respond to or moderate comments, in a long time. I’ll get to it soon, I promise, and it’s nothing personal in the meantime.)
For now, however, I will say take this: I’m not a radical feminist after all. I’m a revolutionary feminist.
I came to feminism from radicalism. Other “radical” movements are not even nominally feminist, and thus they are not truly radical; however, I am a radical in the anticapitalist, environmental, and feminist senses (among others), so I suppose I’ve been naive in thinking “radical” feminism meant what it says on the tin.
I also understand why “radical” feminists seek to distance themselves from other radical movements — the fact that these movements are often as woman-hating as the society they criticize and wish to overthrow.
Many radical feminists say, “Well, I’m a radical, but it just means ‘root'” — but RADICAL in every other sense is not a dirty word. We cannot enact positive change, if any change, by working within the system.
I’m seeking to bring “revolutionary feminist” (a la Sheila Jeffreys) back into usage. We can call it “revolutionary radical feminist” if everyone would prefer, to distinguish us from the anarchist women who think feminism is either “an overreaction” or something to do with consent/BDSM/sex with men/feminist symbols/whatever.
As long as we live in this existing system, we need people working within it to improve the lives of women. I recognize this; “the raddies and the revvies can be friends.” But no amount of legal reform, no amount of safe and legal picketing, or even private (often secret) consciousness-raising will improve them lives of women and girls whose lives have already been ruined.
Women and girls who have been trafficked and are being trafficked RIGHT NOW.
Women and girls who have been raped, abused, molested, and are being raped, abused, molested RIGHT NOW.
Women and girls whose senses of selves have been broken by this abusive, grooming world we live in, and whose senses of selves are being broken RIGHT NOW.
And those women and girls are more important to me than anybody my ideals (or hairy legs, or overt anger) might alienate. I’m a revolutionary and I want to talk about action.
l e s b o n a u t 
… so I suppose I’ve been naive in thinking “radical” feminism meant what it says on the tin.
Perhaps, but what can you expect with a word like *RADICAL* that’s been thrown around for decades, by men, willy-nilly to describe all kinds of actions ranging from being a suicide bomber to being a woman who says, NO! ?
And I agree with you that the current *state of affairs* is entirely unacceptable; I burn that way too.
Looking forward to more, as always. 🙂
Yes, men have trashed the word. Men have trashed all words. We need to either change it or make a better one.
I’m also ready to talk about action, as well as act. Where’s the revolutionary feminist action happening? I’m there!
Haha, well … I think, right here.
Also a few other blogs, which I have yet to list. We’re trying to get something together in real life, but there seems to be about five of us and we’re all living in different parts of the globe.
Hey Joy,
I was really confused by what Sheila meant when she said “revolutionary feminism.” I understand it is not about legal reforms, but radical feminism is also supposed to be about going to the root. So that part of her talk just left me feeling confused.
Sounds like you may have an understanding of what Sheila meant?
Well, as a friend pointed out, SJ might have meant any number of things, because everyone’s personal politics are different.
But personally, with brief exception I’ve always been a revolutionary extremist. As in, from the time I was six years old. So for me, trying to explain “revolution” is like a fish trying to explain “water” or a bird to explain “air.” I’ll give it a try.
Yes, “radical” means “root.” But a revolutionist understands that the root of any given problem is deep — it’s deeper than just its superficial manifestations. We could shut down all sweat shops and still have capitalism (which I consider a pejorative term; if you [general readership you, not womononajourney specifically] do not, then I’ll be frank, you are probably reading the wrong blog). We could get rid of every strip club and still have patriarchy.
The root of the problem is destruction, nihilism, oppression of women. Most of which, popularly speaking, stems from men. Men’s laws, men’s media. Men’s ideas.
So, yes, this is not about legal reform. Because laws, frankly, are bullshit.
I’m not saying this as some pouty rich white anarcho kid who’s rebelling against bathing. (I’m none of those things, except maybe ‘a kid.’) Some laws are good, like “do not rape”, but those laws are rarely if ever enforced. Other laws, like “do not kill”, are good, but those laws are enforced in some cases (a woman kills her abusive husband before he can kill her and her children) and not in others (a man murders a woman for sport). Some laws, like “do not steal”, are good in theory but bad in practice — a man can steal billions of dollars and fuck over untold numbers of people, but a woman stealing food to feed herself can go to prison for years. True stories.
So legal reform is not the answer. Overthrowing the entire system and starting again is the answer.
Of course, this is easier said than done: jockeying for position to take over in any vacuum of power right now are the libertarian militias, the nihilist anarchists, the religious fundamentalists (specifically Christians; there are fringe groups that the media doesn’t even cover that are plotting some really interesting things), and so on. I know that. But it doesn’t change the fact, just makes it a little bit harder to achieve.
Also, to be honest, this is one of the reasons why I have a problem talking to most radical feminists. I’m pretty extreme, politically and personally. I don’t think things can be solved with some tidy protesting out of strip clubs (which also misses the point, for a number of reasons) and a few legal reforms. We will see no progress unless women rise up en masse, in some really fucking untidy, uncivil, and probably illegal ways.
I think a lot of women, like the young contingent of multiple-rape victims from the third wave at Wheelock (who are “choosing their battles”) and the woman whose primary concern about porn seemed to be her seven-year-old son fretting over his penis size, look down their nose at such action. That’s why I’ve previously referred to revolutionary women being “cannon fodder” for the nice polite ladies who still want to have their jobs and Nigels to go back to. I cannot abide by such inaction. We have women’s lives at stake. We can’t be concerned about dirt under our metaphorical fingernails.
Hey Joy,
I agree with the basic ideas you have professed above. I just think we have to be very, very careful and strategic when planning our actions. Have you heard of the book Deep Green Resistance that Lierre has co-authored? The strategy for saving the planet is really, really well thought out. And we need something like that for radfems.
Yes, I am still saying “radfems” because I *still* don’t see a difference between the radicals and the revolutionaries. I almost raised my hand and asked Sheila to explain, but she was in the middle of her speech. ‘Tis how things go…
hey joy,
I saw you wrote a note on fb re: explaining revolution to someone who “doesn’t get it.” I’m assuming you mean me, considering I was the one who asked about the different between radfems and revies. I know damn well what a “revolution” is, and I have never said, “I don’t get it. You mean it doesn’t have to do with legal reforms?” To me though, splitting women into different pockets of feminism seems more like…splitting women up. When I call myself a radical lesbian feminist, what I dream of is revolution, as you describe.
In my opinion, two of the main detours to radfem/revfem revolution have been: 1)
Numbers. We need more women involved 2) Horozontal hostility. Feminists who are in general agreement will spend 95% of their time picking fights with one another. This means no revolution gets accomplished. The feds could not think of a better technique for
stopping us if they tried. Then again, if we were men. we wouldn’t just be arguing with one another: we’d be out in the streets shooting each other.
Hey All,
I think we should start with the fact that the word Radical was first hijacked
by sexual libertrians/BDSM/Pro porn folks. This happened in the 80’s.
Equally the word Radical has been since demonized and used as a tag line for Islamists-
ie; radicalized Muslims willing to kill others in the name of their religion.
Also the ‘Revolutionary Feminist’ womanifestos that were written in the 70’s and 80’s
were generally written by white, privileged womyn. Well at least in the UK, I think I’ve read nearly everyone that was ever published over there.
All too often Radical Feminists are not what they claim to be and are still
stuck working within the system, trying to fix what needs totally dismantling.
All too often I have been laughed at or demonized by other Radical Feminists
and revolutionary feminists for talking about direct action, classism, racism,
Deep ecology (yes I am veggie/vegan) .
I come from an Anarchist Feminist background, when I was first involved in the Anarchist
community in the early 1980’s it WAS VERY pro rad feminist. Radical Anarchist Feminism was flourishing. Yes really !
I doubt I would have found radical feminism or Lesbian separatism if I had not found the Anarchists first who introduced me to these ideas (yeah it sounds unbelievable)
But then of course ‘Queer’ took over and poisoned everything.
Most young womyn & Lesbian DON’T know what Feminism or Lesbian Separatism is.
And more usually than not radical movements get watered down and taken over by
spineless liberals. Or folks turn informer to FBI etc to get less prison time for
their activism – instead of preparing for long term prison sentences for the work they are doing.
I hope that all makes sense.
Also, I posted this post as an observation, not a question of why. I’ve been in radical and/or anarchist movements, like IN them, for years and I’ve also read Anticlimax.
The answer is to help women get out of their situations, maybe. But we have to convince them that it’s a good idea first.
Hey again folks,
Hi Lesbonuat,
can you please tell us your experiences of Anarchist communities ?
In your postings you describe Anarchists as
‘rich white unwashed kids and as anarchist nihilists’?
By the unwashed kids – I think the kids you are talking about are what are referred to on the street (in the USA) as Scumfucks, Oogles and Dirty Kids. These kids are not Anarchists and are not involved in the Anarchist community. Many are homeless train hoppers/hobos/squatters.
Many ARE poor, some are not.
I would say a general discussion about ‘slumming it’ would be better for folks who are born privileged…………
I am a Radical Anarchist Feminist , and I am not rich, white(well 1/2 white) or a nihilist.
I’m neither as you’ll know by my postings and my blog.
I exist within both the Rad Feminist community as an Anarchist,
And within the Anarchist community as a Rad Feminist.
I think that there are MAJOR problems and issues within BOTH the Anarchist and Rad Feminist communities, (even though those are the ‘ethical and political’ ideas that are my life).
My question is:
How do we destroy ‘patriarchy when Feminists WON’T talk about capitalism, the destruction of the planet etc ??
How do we destroy patriarchy when so many of the Rad feminists & Separatists I have come across are white, middle class and emotionally abusive ??
Well that’s my experience after about 30 years.
There are many well known rad feminists ( Seps) I used to know personally or do work with, who I now choose to NOT do ANY activism with because of my experiences of them and because I know what they are like outside of their books or fancy speeches at conferences.
It’s a big reason I stepped way back from and all but retired from the rad Feminist and separatist communities.
How many times have I banged my head on the cement floor when Rad Feminists have laughed at or mocked me for questioning capitalism or I have been excluded from Feminist or womyns events because I can NOT afford the ticket price ????
How do we destroy the patriarchy or should I say the ‘hetero-capitalist-patriarchy’
when soooo many females hold up the het-cap-pat ? When so many Rad feminists think capitalism is great and it is okay to support eco destruction and the enslavement of other species for their meat ??
I’m NOT going into ‘female blaming’ here though some will accuse me of it….
But the system only exists as long as you are supporting it in one way or another.
Kind of like Wallmart – Wallmart exists because people do all their shopping there.
Wallmart would crumble if people stopped shopping there.
I believe in boycotts and direct action and in trying to live my life as an example (not a trendy lifestyle choice) of the things I believe in and hold dear.
And I gotta disagree, protesting outside of business DOES work and Direct Action does get the goods. I do believe that we SHOULD be protesting outside of strip clubs, or even just standing outside and saying ‘Hey sister, you deserve better’. Here is a way out – that means safe houses and retraining for women (& girls !!) involved in the sex industry. Many refuges & shelters WON’T take in prostitutes………………
Women who DO NOT know any better, who have been socialized through abuse need to see that there is a better way. Also female pimps need to be challenged and stopped JUST as much as male pimps. i speak as one who was involved in prostitution when I was a teenager.
The whole culture needs to change and people need to see that other ways are possible.
I know this all my sound simplistic and too black & white for some of you…
femragetruthteller,
I’m wondering where you’ve gotten you’re information that protesting outside strip clubs is a good idea…? Have you had women in the industry or have exited the industry tell you that would have been supportive to them?
I promise to respond to this better in the future, but for now:
I was an anarchist, technically still “am”, for years. I’m also not privileged or technically white (I just pass).
The other kids I knew (ages 18-30+) were all nihilistic assholes who were basically rebelling against bathing. And I mean, the entire Pittsburgh-area anarchist network. Rape-supporting jackasses, the lot of them.
Also, I’m with womononajourney, and I agree. Having been in the industry, and not as a woman who didn’t know any better but as a woman who had no choice, I find it very ill-advised to protest outside of clubs. Women usually have to pay to dance (yes, they do), and if you can’t even get tips (from customers you hate and despise, but work in order to get enough money to live), you LOSE for the night. Do we want to do this to women, or do we want to go after the actual perpetrators — the men?
Actual help to women would be money, shelter, help exiting their situations (I’m talking UHauls to haul their belongings and baseball bats to chase off their spouses/johns/significant others, here), child care, food …
Hi Lesbonaut,
Thank You for your reply.
I’ll try to reply to these 2 issues in separate comments boxes
without getting too confusing! :>).
I hope this is not toooo long !
And a forward warning that some of my comments may trigger – I apologize.
I’ve not been to the Pittsburgh area, so I can not comment on that scene,
Where your experiences in the Punk, Anarchist or Anarcho Punk community ?
And it sounds like you were hanging out with Crusties.
And what action was taken by yourself and other womyn in the community that you were involved in ??
I have been involved (and still am) in the Anarchist community & Punk community on the West Coast and also for many years over in the U.K.
I do think there are equally as many problems in the Anarchist or Punk communities as there are in the Feminist & Lesbian Separatist communities.
I get equally silenced by all 3 communities for even daring to say that,
as is currently happening since I tried to talk about these issues at Radfem HUB.
(And since my experiences over at Radfem Hub – I too now agree that it is a
‘country club’)
So unfortunately I see & have experienced total silence around sexual assault
in a variety of different ‘radical & revolutionary communities.
But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have seen more effort to stop sexual assault within Anarchist & Punk communities.
Be it direct action against predators & perps, zines, education, etc.
I have also tried to write and speak about female on female sexual assault
within Lesbian , Radical Feminist and Lesbian Separatist communities
but have been totally silenced.
I have been told to my face that:
“Womyn and Lesbians are not capable of sexually assaulting other females”
“There is no Lesbian domestic violence”.
“Only men do that”
“No – little boys don’t rape or abuse little girls”.
“We are here to deal with violence against women, NOT Lesbians”
All these comment came from well known Radical Feminists & Lesbian Separatists
I have known and worked with over the years, some well known, published authors
and ‘activists.
Personally, I was raped by a Lesbian when I was younger and physical abused by my mother. It is a miracle that I like womyn, love being female born, follow a goddess spiritual path or was ever a Lesbian or a Feminist.
Many years ago I was working at a Womens Center in England.
It came to our attention that a predatory female was a working at the local Radical Feminist run & operated womens refuge(shelter) (yes unfortunately she was a Lesbian) and had been sexually harassing and threatening other workers and women at the shelter, pinning women against walls so they couldn’t get away and sexually assaulting and threatening them with loss of job, safe place at the refuge…
The refuge(shelter) committee was contacted and the whole incident was swept under the carpet and the predator never lost her job. All letters that were written between us and the refuge were destroyed or hidden deep in the files.
Around this time a racist attack by Lesbians against a Lesbian of colour also occurred in a nearby village – basically a Lesbian was beaten nearly to death with Baseball & Cricket bats by other lesbians who did not want her in ‘their’ community because she was not white…………
Again this was all dealt with in a ‘hush hush’ under the carpet kind of way.
I know it hurts for Radical Feminists and Lesbian Separatists to hear this stuff,
but it’s gotta be dealt with.
I have called myself an Anarchist & Feminist since the since the early 1980’s.
I was also part of the Lesbian Separatist community in the UK & USA for 10+ years.
The odd and I mean REALLY odd thing that I have bee finding lately is that I am feeling more comfortable in the Punk &/or Anarchist communities than I have done in the Radfeminist community for a long long time.
For one, I can call myself a Radical Feminist Anarchist in the Anarchist community
but if I even mention I am a Radical Anarchist Feminist,(or working class & still poor)
in Radfem circles, I get silenced, I get laughed at, looked down upon, ostracized.
I pretty much stopped working within the Rad Feminist community a few years ago and stopped calling my self Separatist for a wide variety of reasons.
I do my Rad Feminist & Anarchist activism on a day to day – person to person basis, on the street, in the communities that I am part of .
It’s NOT about making a career’ out of Feminism for me.
Careerism and middle class womyn & Lesbians started the rot in the Feminist community – Queer just finished it off.
I have been trying to write about all this over at my blog.
I am pissed off and I don’t pretend to not be.
I ask hard – uncomfortable and sometimes frightening questions especially of those
who claim to be radical, revolutionary, feminist, sep, anarchist – whomever.
Because to often I and too many others have been let down and silenced by
our sisters, comrades – the very people we trust, who claim to be trying to build a better world.
Hello again – Part #2
I wanted to respond again about action against strip clubs , etc.
I am fully aware that women have to pay to strip. I have had MANY stripper friends throughout my life and hung out in and around those places and narrowly escaped working in the clubs because of my age.
I was a under age street whore. It is a miracle I am alive. I was one of those little homeless kids out on the corner fucking for food, money and a place to sleep for the night.
They like doing documentaries about folks like that – me.
I am alive because I did not have a pimp and lived by my wits and could run fast,
and because I was lucky enough to have gotten into the Punk scene so had
something to live for. Despite the fact that pimps kept trying to get me.
I got into prostitution because I was conditioned into it through many years of abuse, which is why I left home when I was 14. So I did not know any different.
I need to say again here that, I cold have gotten out of the life sooner IF there had been
folks who had seriously showed me some compassion or even been angry at my wasting away life and had really questioned me and made me see that being a whore was not
OKAY.
That is folks who would have YES gone outside the strip clubs or onto the street corners
and offered me REAL help – someplace safe to live for a start would have helped.
(In the local area where I live now – the women’s shelter does NOT take in prostitutes.
These women have to go into the homeless shelter – with men and no support)
I have many dead prostitute, stripper friends who are dead now because NO ONE would help them – where where the Feminists ??
And generally when I try to talk to Radical Feminists about my experiences as a underage street prostitute I get told to shut up because I am working class/poor.
And because I will not & did not wait around to be ‘rescued’.
I talk as a survivor and not as a perpetual victim.
I talk about my experiences and direct action, what we can do NOW to stop abuse,
not some boring long winded theory…….
Protesting takes many forms, this includes silent witnessing against things you do not support and are harmful to others. This includes doing direct action – ie
being a street outreach worker, etc.
So I am thinking my use of the word ‘protesting’ is different than yours ??
And again I ask:
Where are the Feminists ?
And why WON’T Feminists hold female abusers, female pimps/madams
& female sex offenders & female battererss accountable ?????????
I guess what I am also trying to say comes from my personal experiences in the sex industry. And my gut instinct and experience shows me – a former street prostitute
that those strip clubs, brothels and red light districts will stay open as long as NO ONE is doing anything to close them down, change that culture and directly confront pimps & johns. Again and again I hear women who are trying to exit – escape say:
‘Where are the feminists”.
Hello Wommon journey.
Can you please read my post again.
I am a survivor of the sex industry and was involved in prostitution on the street
between the ages of 14 & 16 years old, when I was homeless in
Los Angeles and San Francisco. So yes I am ‘exited’.
I would have left that life IF there had been folks (not social services)
who did outreach on the streets,
folks who had said ‘what the hell are you doing’ ?? ‘Why are you doing this’??
AND if there had been a safe place, safe house for me to go to.
And if there had been folks to show me that THERE is a better way to live.
I think about my prostituted female (and some male prostituted friends) friends who are
dead now. They are dead because they didn’t know there was a better way to live.
They would still be ALIVE if there HAD been folks outside the clubs, stopping and protesting
against the pimps (male & female), stopping the Johns, the punters who think it is
perfectly okay to buy and sell other human beings. And folks being outside the clubs ,
on the streets giving practical day to day support, safe houses, shelters, etc.
There are so many groups and individuals doing that work,
but many are not Feminists , so where are the Feminists??
I hear that in Portland Oregon there are strip clubs next to and across the street
from schools because of the zoning laws.
Shall we do nothing about that ?
So YES as someone who survived that life, I strongly believe in Direct Action , that can
take a myriad of different forms, protesting, education, outreach, etc.
The word ‘protesting’ may means something completely different to you?
Please lets have an intelligent discussion.
I value Lesbonauts blog and the space she has created here.
My comments over at Radfem Hub are not getting posted, are getting deleted
because I DO NOT use middle class language and I speak my experiences
and not just ‘theories’.
Can I suggest that folks check out some of the following underground
feminist direct action groups that were active in the 1980’s?
Please do an internet search for:
“Angry Wimmin” – A U.K feminist group taking direct action against porn and male violence in the North of England around the time of the ‘yorkshire ripper’ murders.
“Red Zora/Rote Zora” – A German Anarchist Feminist group that took direct action against pimps, and other forms of violence against women.
Thank You
Femragetruthteller
That’s all I gotta say on the matter really. We have to agree to disagree and to respect each others experience. I am not in a ‘oppression’ competition.
And Lesbonaut please when you have the energy & time can you give us your
feedback on the conference you just attended ??
Thank You again for creating this blog.
Interesting how no one replied to you femragetruthteller, your detailing of your firsthand observation of woman-on-woman sexual harassment (i.e. a so-called feminist abusing/coercing vulnerable womyn in the shelter you mentioned) is a striking example of what is wrong with the movement. It does not want to look at itself in the mirror, but only wants to see “others” (us vs. them) i.e. mostly men , as the problem when many of the problems are also internal and within the movement. It just disappoints me how some “comrade” can hide under the cause of woman’s rights and ignore her oppression of the vulnerable people they claim to want to uplift. Parasitic if you ask me, the same is different for anyone who wishes to glamorize a madam (who usually profit and psychologically control woman more due to gender trust…that is what keeps Asian woman trafficked into America…female madams make many of those arrangements and function as business owners, and these women due to illegal status noncitizenship are in a further opressed state/ can’t speak english etc.)
I guess what I am also trying to say comes from my personal experiences in the sex industry. And my gut instinct and experience shows me – a former street prostitute
that those strip clubs, brothels and red light districts will stay open as long as NO ONE is doing anything to close them down, change that culture and directly confront pimps & johns. Again and again I hear women who are trying to exit – escape say:
‘Where are the feminists”.
A feminists is not likely to pay their bills however. The whole “where are the feminists” logic makes it seems as if the “movement” will rescue and save the womyn in these situations. It’s all ideological and rhetorical substance you are spouting, although you do make a point, but an inconclusive one. Most are in it for economic reasons and lack of skills/education, and as long as womyn (you can take pimps/madams out of the blame in this case, as many start as freelancers/independents) are in an opressed condition/ poverty etc. This industry will continue. Just like drugs and drug dealing, as long as people are in a position where they have no other means, it will occur. It is created by poverty, as the profession exists as an economic one. I see no solution whatsover in closing these industries or saying rhetoric like “where are the feminists”, most are just wanting to subsist.
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I was wanting to know if you ever considered modifying the page layout of your website? It is very well written; I love what you have got to state. But maybe you can create a a bit more in the way of written content so people might connect with it better. Youve got a great deal of wording for only having one or two images. Maybe you can space it out better?
The structure for the site is a little bit off in Epiphany. Nevertheless I like your web site. I might have to use a normal browser just to enjoy it.
An interesting post there mate ! Thanks for it !
This site has got a lot of really helpful information on it. Thank you for informing me!
I have got 1 suggestion for your web site. It appears like at this time there are a number of cascading stylesheet issues when launching a selection of webpages inside google chrome and internet explorer. It is running alright in internet explorer. Possibly you can double check that.
I experimented with looking at your blog in my mobile phone and the layout doesnt seem to be correct. Might wanna check it out on WAP as well as it seems most mobile phone layouts are not really working with your website.
If you could email me with a few tips about how you made your site look this awesome , I would appreciate it!
Females CANNOT rape each other because they do not have peens (torture sticks which give males orgasm and sadistic thrills while hurting and dehumanizing females, subjecting them to STDs and the physical horror/pain/potential disability and death of pregnancy, additional agonizing pain, terror and humiliation via abortion or childbirth, and the invasive life-altering permanent presence of a helpless human you become responsible for, including knowing that this human will grow up to either unleash his torture stick in females OR be a female who is liable to herself be tortured by one). Females can sexually assault each other, but only a small minority do so, and usually to win the favor of a male, money, or to escape additional torture at his hands. Also, I’d be surprised to find one instance of a female -on-female sexual abuser who wasn’t herself first raped by a male.
And of course boys rape girls…They do have penises, don’t they?